Maybe.
Try this for an analogy.
Renting is like shacking up. Responsibilities are minimal. Expectations are low. Commitment is non-existent. When it comes time to pull up stakes, there are no financial or emotional webs. A bachelor's dream come true.
But buying a house is very close to a marriage. You are adding a new entity to your life. A high maintenance entity. One that will suck up every extra peso for the equivalent of makeup, jewelry, and clothes. And when it comes time to part, there are all sorts of emotional and financial complications.
The fact that I rent is no surprise. Nor that I am happy living on my own.
You all know how the house acquisition mood got started. We can blame it all on Lake Pátzcuaro. And the fact that one of the houses that brought me to this area is just back on the market.
Keeping my marriage metaphor puttering along here, I would like to introduce you to the three houses I am considering betrothing. There are some other minor contenders.
But here is the first of the Big Three. I will tell you about about each in separate posts over the next three days.
Even before I knew I was retiring, I had started looking at houses in Mexico. Now and then at work I would open a random real estate site to look at houses in given areas.
First, it was Puerto Vallarta. Then some serious consideration to Pátzcuaro. And Morelia.
Somehow I opened the site for La Manzanilla -- a little village I had never heard of. But the photographs were exactly what I wanted in Mexico. Beach. Sun. No big hotels. Just a view of one of the most beautiful bays I had ever seen.
I scrolled through the listings until I found this house -- Joseph. One bedroom downstairs. A combination living room, kitchen, and dining area.
But it had a marvelous view of the bay.
So, down I flew to La Manzanilla to see it in 2007. I was a bit disappointed with the place when I saw it on that visit. (a travel log in search of an editor). It was about that point that I decided to look for rentals, rather than buying a house.
Then the price of the house started leisurely drifting down to a very tempting level. And I, once again, started thinking about buying. (little at feet on the sand).
So, off I went on Saturday to see the place. The realtor had very courteously had the jungle growth on the small lot trimmed to show off the view at its best.
It was still the same house. Perched on the hill above its garage. And with its 60-some stairs to climb to get what can be charitably called a partial ocean view. But what can be seen is spectacular.
Because it has not been occupied by an owner for a few years, it is in dire need of fresh paint and a very serious scrubbing.
It is the perfect retreat for a writer. The surrounding jungle gives the impression of living in the country even though neighbors are close by. I could easily see me sitting on the patio with that view in front of me and my creative juices churning out prose.
But the sense of isolation comes at a price. La Manzanilla's infrastructure is even more basic that Melaque's. Water is trucked in to the tinaca and then pumped up to the house.
Propane is provided by cylinder. A nuisance of a system -- as anyone knows who has ever wrestled with the cylinders. But it would be possible to install a large propane tank at the base of the stairs.
Living in Mexico is very similar to camping. It is just more so in La Manzanilla.
For most people, the next issue would be a deal killer. This is ejido land where all land must be acquired through a presta nombre -- a borrowed name. Most Anglo-Saxons have real trouble with this concept.
My advice is that if you cannot afford to walk away from the property, you are not going to feel secure with the purchase.
The listed price is $80,000 -- just about the level I would feel comfortable, if the ownership issue went bad, saying: "Sayonara, babe. Have a good life."
With some paint, a shiny new interior, and a new propane tank, Joseph is easily in the running as Steve's next personal commitment. But withhold your applause until you see the next two candidates.
73 comments:
I see potential here. Only negative really, would be the stairway to heaven.
A high-maintenance entity? In the U.S., that is true. Down here, it is far less so. However, it may be true on the beach due to all the environmental elements you've mentioned over the years. That house looks a lot like a guesthouse I stayed in once in La Manzanilla around 2003. I heard later that it was for sale. I wonder if it's the same.
Heat and humidity in the summer months. Steve would still be retreating to SMA and Pátzcuaro.
Saludos, Don Cuevas
This house with a beautiful view has some very serious negatives, as you have mentioned. Think of going up & down those 60 stairs every time you come & go. Hauling in water & dragging a propane cylinder up those stairs! No way!
I have a house in Melaque & visit La Mazanilla every week. I enjoy the beauty there, but I very much like the conveniences of my home base.
I would buy it for the moss. The water and gas issues are minimal. There are a way of life in these parts, too. As much as I enjoy your writing, I did not like at all this l insert:But buying a house is very close to a marriage. You are adding a new entity to your life. A high maintenance entity. One that will suck up every extra peso for the equivalent of makeup, jewelry, and clothes.
Is that really your view of a woman? Like having a spoiled pet, eh?
You know I hope that we are friends of a sort. Blogger friends. I couldn't help but note the sexist comment.
I live with multiple staircases. If I were older, and soon I will be, it would be an issue.
All the issues that you mention are quite minor, although like marrage do take a commitment to and compromise to,too.
The big positive that I can see is that the place is already built, which had I to do it over again would have done some more looking prior to jumping in with both feet.
Most of the negative hassle factor can be done with a live in caretaker family, so that you don't get depressed with overload.
Many homeowners have solved much greater issues and lived to tell great stories of, after a brewskis or two.
It appears that the price may be cheap enough to allow motion to grab the upperhand at least to do more investigating.
After all, many of your blog buddies have already solved most and all of the issues you talk of.......
Besides just think of the enjoyment of having clothes already in the closet...
Now you just need to find a little señorita to cook and clean for you.
Mark and I rented a house in La Manzanilla for about ten days about 6 or so years ago, and we happened to be there during a very big earthquake. All the electricity went out immediately. It was a day or two before it was repaired. Obviously this house survived-that's a plus. But, what happens to the water pump when there is no electricity? You will still have propane, but does it need electricity to light the stove? Will you be able to get a maid and a gardener to come up those stairs? If something happens to your foot or ankle? Disaster! Also, it is always going to be a drive to do anything. No more sauntering out the door to walk down the street for a cup of coffee...I think you are paying too much ( in inconvenience not pesos) for the view. Next!
This house reminds me of the house I rent whenever I go to San Cristobal de las Casas in Chiapas. The house I rent is perched atop a hill and has about 25 steps. As I see it, your "bachelorette #1" has about 60-some stairs too many, but curb appeal is definitely there.
ALL THOSE STEPS GET REAL OLD, REAL QUICK. ESPECIALLY WHEN HAULING GROCERIES AND THE LIKE.
It is rather chrming though, but would never get my vote because of the extensive climb.
And it is quite a climb. Almost like living in Guanajuato. Without the Italianate charm.
That would be a given. There is quite a San Miguel-La Manzanilla connection.
When I broke my ankle, I was glad that I did not need to deal with stairs like the ones at Joseph.
Laurie, thank you for saying something...Steve waxes poetic in ways that often intrigue me, but this time it was annoying.
Paint is the largest issue on the coast. Most homeowners tell me they are on a regular repainting cycle. Some every three years.
This house definitely has some charm, but I think you would soon be sorry about the steps...the gas and water are a minor inconvenience. I'm looking forward to seeing the other choices.
The cartoonish analogy, of course, disregards all of the companionship that marriage brings -- something that a house can never offer. And that is why metaphors are such tricky things.
But there is no doubt that buying a house creates a commitment that I have been reluctant to make here in the wilds of the Pacific coast.
All good points. And the view is subject to neighboring vegetation.
After dealing with various hills in San Miguel de Allende, Morelia, and Pátzcuaro this summer, I look at the stairs as more of a challenge than as an impediment. But, you are correct. Schlepping groceries up the stairs would be a hassle.
The next house has has internal stairs. The third -- none.
This house would not work with a live-in caretaker. However, there is a possibility with house #2.
If I bought the house, driving to Melaque would still be a necessity. For all of its rustic charm, La Manzanilla still comes up short on infrastructure. Such as, summer restaurants.
Sixty steps in a thunder and rain storm trying to keep a load of groceries from falling apart is more than I care to visalize.
This would be a nightmare house for you. And when we get rain, we get lots of rain. The stairs would be a stream bed.
As I have said before, I am a big supporter of marriage. It is just not my cup of tea. But I do apologize if my broadly-drawn analogy gave offense. I thought more people would have been offended by the "shacking up" comment.
I did not see any mention or analogy regarding spoiled pets.
It looks like a fortress.
If you are really thinking of buying a house, I think you already know which one, and you're just having fun writing these posts. That's what I think. You'd be nuts to buy this one. Sixty steps up! I lived in an apartment building in San Juan once that had no elevator. I was on the fifth floor. It really puts a damper on your desire to leave home, knowing you'll face those stairs on the return. And carrying groceries?! Forget about it.
It does. From the street, it looks like one of those medieval Italian towers. It could be my little survivalist den.
As much as I enjoyed the walk up the hill to the condo, I would always take the truck out for grocery errands. There is something nice about walking groceries on flat land.
And, you may be correct. My favorite house may be another.
"But buying a house is very close to a marriage."
Just call me a bigamist - even Mormon-esqe.
From the little you show - it looks like a GREAT deal. Lot size? Square footage (all in metric is fine)? Rooms and MORE PHOTOS hombre. One of my properties is a preste nombre issue - where you find the best of deals; and I am not afraid - we can talk privately about that some time.
There could be some clever lift design in the making. I would not rule it out for the stairs - but that is just me - Forced exercise is a good thing. But as Felipe suggests - I suspect you are toying with us and saving the best for last (or at least next).
I concur with the rest of the posters who think the stairs are a big negative consideration. Imagine trying to get down those during a 7.5 earthquake!
On a positive note, I have found some Walkers pickled onion crisps, which I will be bringing to Melaque from Blighty, for you.
I can't wait to see the other two places.
I will just weigh in on the location - La Manzanilla. We really love this little fishing village.
Early this year, I looked into relocating our family there. Of course, schools are our big factor. Alas, other life opportunities changed our course and we will not in La Manzanilla - this year anyway.
Felipe! Get a life. Or a cafecito. Something.
Really?
Really?
I'm loving it, then again I am an old surfer from Calif and I slept many
a night on the sand. For you, as I said in my previous comment, it
would be an outstanding place to leave empty while you were elsewhere.
It is a perfect guestroom and we will bring towels.
And, my said she might have been offended IF you had mentioned pets. That really irks here ;o
"One that will suck up every extra peso for the equivalent of makeup, jewelry, and clothes." I'm stunned that you are not married.
The stairs are one thing, the water and gas cylinder are nothing - someone else handles it. THE WORST is being able to get papers from the presta nombre who holds the papers initially. Many, many people (in La Manzanilla) and other places, have paid for this service, some over 5 years ago and still don't have any title to their property or documentation. I politely ask, R U crazy?
The Notaría Publica (property transactions lawyer) I have worked with for years always tells me to never, under any circumstances, get involved with ejido land. She says there are as many ways to end up with problems as there members of the ejido, and then some. And you've got to really trust your presta nombre...and that person's family.
La Manzanilla is a wonderful spot, but with the ejido issue, and those stairs (which eventually could become a problem if you plan to live there for long), I would consider very carefully before buying this one.
I wonder why it has been on the market for so long?
This house has a LOT of issues.
1) Surprisingly, no one has asked if you can get any internet service there. How about a phone?
2)
Ejido Land -- absolutely EVERYTHING ever written about Mexican real
estate says this is a no-no. But you already know that. So I'd suggest a
different way of looking at it, from a stock-trader's perspective. We
all like to talk about "buying the dip," whether it be in a stock or a
broader index like the S&P 500. But when the dip actually comes, it
looks completely different. Dips don't occur for no reason, and the
reasons are usually good. So buying the dip becomes much harder when the
dip arrives, and then is a question of psychology. Tying this analogy
back to your proposed ejido house, what is your psychological state
*AFTER* the worst has happened and you are suddenly evicted having lost
everything? Do you ever buy again? How do you feel about Mexico? Does
this eviction happen at a convenient time, or the worst time possible?
Also, what are the odds of this occurring? How much might it cost to buy
off the necessary people to stop such an event? Would you be willing to
do such a thing? Could you do such a thing without risking becoming a
poster child of greedy gringos usurping the lands of native peoples?
3)
Stairs. In San Miguel, most "stairs" or climbing is optional. If you
feel pooped, you can always call a taxi, though you still have to get up
whatever steps are in your own house. But most houses aren't going to
have more than a dozen or so from the street. With your 60+ in that
house, I presume there's no way around, aside from installing some
expensive elevator. (Which would also likely dramatically increase the
value of the property too.) So you're now willing to climb the stairs.
OK. But you did have a zipline accident a while back. How about a
70-something year old Steve? An 80-something year old? At the age of 20,
I lived in a 4th floor walk up and literally ran up and down the stairs
several times a day and enjoyed it. Now at 50-something and still in
very good shape, I'd rather not. And I'll second everyone else's
comments on groceries, and double down on that where drinkable water
doesn't come out of taps. Consider the future.
4) A house that
is remote or secluded is also one that can be trashed by burglars at
leisure. Since you travel so much, this factor shouldn't be overlooked.
I'm sure you've seen John Calypso's recent posts.
5) One small
offsetting positive is that you are unlikely to be bothered there by
either salespeople or missionaries peddling various religions. But I'm
not sure that outweighs the negatives.
Saludos,
Kim G
Boston, MA
Where we wonder if you got our rather lengthy e-mails.
P.S. I'm leaning toward Felipe's theory of writing fodder here, but I do have one more suggestion. Get the keys to that place and go up and down those stairs 4 times a day for the next two weeks. If after that you still want it, then the stairs aren't an issue.
But I'll bet you a nice dinner in DF that after such a test, that place would be struck off the list.
Kim G
Boston, MA
Where we want stairmasters to be objects, not people.
Christine Dubois wrote:
" You will still have propane, but does it need electricity to light the stove?"
Matches, or a butane lighter. We frequently have power outages, but I keep on cooking.
Saludos, Don Cuevas
My electric spark does not always work. I have a butane lighter next to the stove. And matches in the pantry. I have used almost all of my camping skills living on the coast in Mexico.
1. Telephone is not an issue. My internet would be DSL. One of the first questions I asked.
2. No one likes walking away from a failed investment. Just ask the people who lost their homes to foreclosure. I certainly would not be at the top of my psychological game if it happened. But I come from a family that is trained in taking it on the chin.
3. Maybe I could hire strong lads could carry me up and down in a sedan chair.
4. Security would require some attention. But, I suspect, out of necessity, a house would cut down a good deal of traveling.
5. Or drop-in guests. I am not certain there is even a bell at the bottom of Mount Everest.
I have your emails. In fact, I am looking at some of the options you laid out right now.
There are still two more contenders. In the end, it may be a writing exercise.
I am shocked -- shocked -- that someone whohas known me as long as you have cannot see that tongue deeply embedded in my cheeck. ;-P
And this property is not even in the process of regularization.
I take it, that s a "no" vote.
The ejido issue took the house out of the running five years ago.
As for the length of time on the market -- its small size, the stairs, and the ejido are factors. It is almost at a give-away price right now.
Yup..........my friend from San Miguel, among others have been left high and dry. She has been in the process for over 5 years! Can't sell it as it is.........
Bring your climbing ropes.
Too bad It would have been great to spend more time with the four of you.
I have a feeling that a 7.5 earthquake would have the house down the hill before I could get down the stairs.
If you click on the real estate site link in my text, there are photographs of the full interior. I am not certain about square footage. The house and stairs are essentially on the full lot.
Would a blogger toy with the perception of readers? I run an honest establishment here.
If I bought this place, there would be little possibility of resale. I would simply be buried up there.
Ejido schmido, I've been reading you long enough to guess that comfort, reliability and security are pretty far down on the list of needs/wants. I have a great book filled with folks that threw caution to the wind and went where their maker sent them. If all you have is the shirt on your back, then all that can be stolen is your shirt. Then again......
It does have an incredible view. And, you are correct. Doing the safe thing is not high on my list of priorities.
You spend that much in six years renting here and that's HERE.
Give-away price...OK I guess it's been too long since I looked at real estate prices in the area. I'll take your word for it.
I was just looking at some nice little beach-town homes on the Gulf here in Yucatan (private transactions with locals, not through agents, but with clear title and current deeds), not waterfront, but within a block or two. One was $12K; another $30K. That's more in my line these days, given the risks involved with property ownership in a hurricane zone. Which is the bigger loss risk, hurricanes here, or ejido there? Who knows?
Good luck, Steve. I am sure you will find what you are looking for. Thanks for taking us along for the ride.
As NW suggests when I considered Ejido property I did a rent calculation which came out to 5-6 years and they could take it - I would have got my monies worth. But - not all ejido land is the same - calculated risk after due diligence might just make you a lucky guy while others just dismiss the idea at the name type only.
On the Puerto Forum there is a recent MAJOR hassle with property that has a fideicomiso (those things are 600-800 a year for starters)
I look at sq. ' and replacement value minus depreciation. Just from the few photos I can see there is no way you coul buy the land - build the walls and garage and then build that place for 80k - no way.
The place is nicely appointed and a REALLY terrific view - in Malibu, CA that little cottage is 5 million and change. There people pay a few million for a dump that they tear down just to build on the lot. And then they are paying 12-15k a year in property taxes.
The stairs - perhaps an issue - the gas and water none at all. My beach place did not even have hot water - $250 USD and I have an instant on water heater and pump - portable enough to where I transport it between Xico and Puerto. Delivered water is probably far less than the average monthly water bill in the U.S. and you have great opportunities for a catch water system there.
I would offer 70k and see where it goes - that place is really lovely with LOTS of potential. Talk to Sparks about presta nombre's (he has one) or talk to me - I can tell you more.Do not just roll over and pass because some people that do not know how to research a possibility just shout - run! That is the crazy response.
But of course! The stairs look deadly to me. Please have a rescue inhaler and rock climbing gear available for my visit. Then you can take me out to buy some pretty jewelry and clothes for me.
It doesn't matter how cheap it is - over $50,000 - if you can't get up the 60 stairs to the front door some day........WOW 61 comments! YOU hit a nerve..........
Stairs seem to be far more popular than chamber music.
This house has a soft spot in my heart. Or it would not be on the list.
Good point. An ex-girl friend just wrote and told me I would be stupid to pass it up.
And no makeup? What kind of objectified stereotype are you?
Most houses around here are in the range of $200K and up. The influx of northern cash in the 1990s and early 2000s ratcheted up prices. And they have not come down since. There are a few bargains here and there. But most come with some baggage.
We can't wait to see what you decide!!! Love all the input. Good for you Steve!! By the way, if you happen to come across an RV Park between Manzanillo and PV, about $4,000 to $5,000 a month, AND where the surf is not an issue,(we prefer calm waters). please let me know, as we will be heading that way in December. Must accommodate a 36' 5th wheel.
Good luck again!!
Least expensive house in the neighborhood - always a good idea for resale - but then like our beach house - won't be selling in my life time.
I will check around. As you know, calm waters on the Pacific are a true rarity.
Personally I think the ejido thing is your biggest deterrent. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Right now the stairs may not be a deterrent either but if you are planning on a long "marriage" they may become one.
"Suck up every peso for the equivalent of makeup, jewelry and clothes" ?
Really? WOW.
Now that my ankle is better, the stairs do not seem too daunting.
My experience with houses is they do soak up pesos (or dollars up north). My experience with marriage? Nada. But you already know that.
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